- @harrymylandIV @Groonk Talkin’ as someone that knew the UK series pretty well first – After the 1st season, the US Office is it’s own thing. #
- @harrymylandIV @Groonk … & gets to avoid direct comparisons. & agree about Carrell, kinda… #
- @Groonk @harrymylandIV … Though with him & Gervais, always got the feeling you weren’t SUPPOSED to laugh most of the time! They both hurt! #
- Hm. I’ve had both Gervais & Carrell bosses. Carrell is a harder boss to have, because deep down, he’s nicer. Which is more complicated… #
- @harrymylandIV @Groonk Watching through the latter half of season 3 with Girl One now. It’s new to her! At 1st she was hardcore UK version. #
- @harrymylandIV Yeah… I came late to the Carrell party – to be honest, he’s a soft sell for me, because I find him pretty likeable… #
- … perh #
- Whoops… Perhaps more likeable than funny, is what I was about to say. Though “Little Miss Sunshine” was a standout performance… #
- @Malakym Oh, yeah, it’s been a while. Solid season, too, if you like the show. Though low on the forensics, high on drama. BIG cast changes! #
- @Groonk It’s something I said before either show even came out – I’d sooner a competent asshole boss than one that wants to be friends… #
- @Groonk I have heard grumblings about this, but haven’t experienced it yet. Why don’t they just make it Gravatar friendly…? #
- @Malakym Same here, pretty much. & yeah, the cast changes I mentioned are kind of an ongoing process. But the BIG one is being set up early. #
- @Groonk It’s kind of not all acting. He’s a tough interview to watch, because it’s hard to tell how much of an ass he is in real life… #
- @Groonk … one’s instincts say “quite an ass”. Incidentally, my foreign brothers, have you had much Alan Partridge out there? #
- @Malakym At the moment, every episode seems to be delivering a heartbreaking Grissom “First”. #
- Teehee, I got @Groonk to expose himself for the first time…! #
- @Groonk Not just ANY gay man, The Milky Bar Kid. Dude. Was that just a UK thing? It was Western themed… #
- @Groonk http://is.gd/8p5k Should edumacate you. http://is.gd/8p5r – A low point. http://is.gd/8p5D – Dara O’Briain explains the phenomenon. #
- Was trying to find some classic Partridge for @Groonk & @harrymylandIV, but fast realised – It’s ALL classic. #
- @steevbishop I never sleep… Listen, this Milky Bar Kid stuff is of INTERNATIONAL IMPORTANCE… #
- … And did you know there were places in the civilised world where they don’t have Partridge? This needs to be addressed! @steevbishop #
- @Groonk @harrymylandIV If you guys don’t have The Day Today, you owe it to yourselves to find it. Like, srsly. TDT first, Brass Eye next… #
- @harrymylandIV I love Herring & Collins, Adam & Joe, Armstrong & Miller… those are comedy podcast thingies. #
- @harrymylandIV Are you using iTunes? Should be easy to find in the podcast directory. Otherwise, uh… #
- @harrymylandIV H & C are pretty profane, & A & M are a bit… smartarse. But Adam & Joe are a lot of fun. Also, You Look Nice Today is good. #
- @Sulman Multi-taskin’ like a motherfucker. You were just described as my “In” to the IT department. Sometimes I don’t know how to respond… #
- @steevbishop Yay! Have you noticed that Coogan seems to be getting younger? He looks about 25 in Tropic Thunder… #
- @harrymylandIV Oh, jeez, proper snow really DOES turn us all into five year olds, doesn’t it? #
- @steevbishop Whereas, learned brother, I ONLY endorse campaigns with a handful of petroleum jelly. Low friction engagement, sir! #
- @Sulman Yeah, that’s entirely how it is, & should be, but you know how these folks roll. Old world back scratchery is what they understand. #
- @steevbishop That looks really pretty cool. Solid cast, too – always been a fan of Tomei, & when Rourke is good, he’s great! #
- Had a bit of a listen to GnR album. It’s quite loud, or maybe I’m just old. Also sounds a bit like Axl’s finally heard Industrial music… #
- … Though guessing I’m NOT the target audience… #
- @idsharman I listened to that album – those albums? – a LOT… maybe I need to dig them out again, cos I’d forgotten that entirely… #
- @idsharman Oh, gosh, that sounds like a lot of work… Can’t you just… busk it for me?
I will have a re-listen when I get a chance… # - … it occurs to me that ALL of my GnR is on cassette, and I’m not sure I’ve got a player! AWESOME! I’m getting old… #
- @idsharman I think the same thing happened to me with Screamadelica by Primal Scream. &, uh… Misplaced Childhood by Marillion. Oh, dear. #
- The Primal Scream is awesome, but Marillion is unforgiveable. I was young & foolish! Also, have owned Graceland by Paul Simon about 5 times. #
- @harrymylandIV Please tell me Monty is the dog/cat, and not an aging relative/parent/Josh? #
- @harrymylandIV Oh, wow, he sounds awesome. Do you have photos up anywhere…? #
- @harrymylandIV Well, now, I’ve obviously seen that before because mine is the first comment. I’m just clearly forgetful as hell… #
- @Groonk But they are megasuperawesomerad! That HAS to count for something, right? Ask me about my story all about the missing reflections… #
- @Groonk … I can’t tell you. It is a huuuge secret project that I thought of in my early 20s. About the missing vampire reflections. #
- @Groonk … I also can’t tell you because I have forgotten most of the details. Beyond the ones I’ve just told you. #
- @Groonk It’s possible that the super-dark fictional premise I came up with was actually just an over extrapolated MirrorMaster thing… #
- @harrymylandIV I have about seven or eight a minute… I’m like an old @joshhechinger #
- (Old and less cute.) #
- @harrymylandIV @Groonk Oh god, actually it was a bit like “Mirrors”, the ungood Kiefer movie from recently. #
- @Malakym You’re right there, my fellow. Tipex certainly isn’t glue, is it? Double the mess, half the intoxication! #
- @Groonk Maybe an idea that needs to be done some time soon – after the nonzombie detective story I’m writing now for the novel thing. #
- Oh, dear, @GregCarter, you aren’t defining rules for fictional concepts, are you? Surely, the best thing about fiction is we can make it up? #
- To paraphrase Richard Herring – Zombies can do whatever they want, because they’re made up! #
- @joshhechinger Oh, god, I think you just described every fucking one of my Elephant Words pieces in the first six months…! #
- Once November is done, I have GOT to spend some time reworking the two websites. EW has great content, but no feedback – difficult not to… #
- … see it as a problem with the site. 365 Tomorrows seems to have an active forum, & I think we’ve similar audiences. #
- & I’m loving writing bits & bobs for Nixsight, but frankly have had that layout for too long. It tires me out. #
- @Sulman Good point. Well, kind of. As you know, there was supposed to be scope for reader contribution, but it’s fundamentally broken at mo. #
- @Sulman … Also, I think, especially early on, staff-writers made most (if not all) of the work over there. The other problem, of course… #
- … Is one of demographic. Though the work at 365T is widely varied, it still all fits the broad sci-fi or speculative mode. EW is looser… #
- … & as such, a tougher sell, I think. I’m not doing right by the idea, is what it comes down to. & I agree entirely, @sulman. #
-
Found Objects
We need comics. We don’t need the comic mainstream – certainly not as much as it needs us. And we wouldn’t even be having this argument about Watchmen if that book wasn’t part of that industry. It couldn’t have existed without it, it wouldn’t have been relevant without it, and most of us wouldn’t have even had the chance to read it without it.
We don’t have to give a shit about Watchmen, or Before Watchmen. We choose to.
We don’t have to fight about issues that we really have no skin in. We choose to.
We should really grow out of it.
Last Friday I wrote a really long post over at my site about Before Watchmen. It was probably too long, fence-sitting and unstructured to get as much widespread attention as some of the more aggressive pieces out there, but I still feel everything in it.
This is the tiniest part of it - a sentiment that I feel is pretty important - you can read the whole thing here.
I AM IN CONTROL OF MY EMOTIONS!
The Newly Announced Before Watchmen Is a Prime Example of What's Killing Mainstream Comics
“I have no idea whether this project will be any good or not. But it sits as a shining example of the fundamental flaw that exists in the comic industry, especially within DC Comics. They spend most of their time chasing the readers that grew up with their iconic characters rather than attempting to attract new readers who are growing up right now.”
Totally agree with this - though I think DC52, being a company-wide initiative, was more indicative of it, and I said as much at the time.
However, that backward looking trait in comics isn’t unique to publishers. Comic readers - many of whom are also comic retailers, which is a bigger issue - run wild with entitlement on either side of any comic-related debate, and stand ready to jump on anything that they perceive as a deviation or affront to comic texts or characters that they feel shouldn’t be touched. It all adds to the stupidly binary way any comic-related issue is handled.
The huge amount of brilliant work that goes un-discussed, unsupported and unbought in-between those two dominant cultures is the only genuine ongoing tragedy in comics today, I reckon. The rest is just semantics and negotiation of contracts.
Yup, yup, yup…the fact that people are wasting their time arguing about the merits of Before Watchmen while amazing books like The Interactives go largely ignored is, quite frankly, criminal.
Not least because it means that yet again we’re all having a conversation about Watchmen. I came to Watchmen a little bit late - like, a year after publication - and loved it at the time. It encouraged me to go on and read so many more other books, to read them critically, and work out why they work and don’t work etc etc etc. But the more people hold it to this impossible standard in such a hyperbolic and aggressive way, the more I find reasons to chip away at it.
If you love Watchmen that much, write about how good Watchmen is in it’s own right. Don’t use it as a stick to bash everything that’s come since. Don’t use it as a way to try and win an argument about whatever your pet comic issue is that week. I think Alan Moore’s biggest issue is that his book isn’t regarded enough in it’s own right, and it’s an important enough work to be handled without gossip-context and all the other bollocks that passes for adults-who-read-comics-talking-about-comics.
Show Alan Moore and Watchmen a bit of respect, and don’t try and impose your fucking context on it. It’s a work of art. It genuinely can’t be ruined by any art that follows, but it can be ruined by every third word spoken about it being bleaty, entitled shite.
Sorry, you said something? The Interactives? What’s that? I have never heard of it, therefore it must not be worth bothering with.
Yep, I completely agree with you here. As great as Watchmen was it has been a big part of what has utterly ruined comics (and I know that Moore agrees with this himself) as so many people have spent the years since using it as a template for what comic should be. It was a work of satire! It was never intended to be a “How To” guide for aspiring comic creators.
And The Interactives is this - http://theinteractives.com/
Huh. That looks ace, actually.
The Newly Announced Before Watchmen Is a Prime Example of What's Killing Mainstream Comics
“I have no idea whether this project will be any good or not. But it sits as a shining example of the fundamental flaw that exists in the comic industry, especially within DC Comics. They spend most of their time chasing the readers that grew up with their iconic characters rather than attempting to attract new readers who are growing up right now.”
Totally agree with this - though I think DC52, being a company-wide initiative, was more indicative of it, and I said as much at the time.
However, that backward looking trait in comics isn’t unique to publishers. Comic readers - many of whom are also comic retailers, which is a bigger issue - run wild with entitlement on either side of any comic-related debate, and stand ready to jump on anything that they perceive as a deviation or affront to comic texts or characters that they feel shouldn’t be touched. It all adds to the stupidly binary way any comic-related issue is handled.
The huge amount of brilliant work that goes un-discussed, unsupported and unbought in-between those two dominant cultures is the only genuine ongoing tragedy in comics today, I reckon. The rest is just semantics and negotiation of contracts.
Yup, yup, yup…the fact that people are wasting their time arguing about the merits of Before Watchmen while amazing books like The Interactives go largely ignored is, quite frankly, criminal.
Not least because it means that yet again we’re all having a conversation about Watchmen. I came to Watchmen a little bit late - like, a year after publication - and loved it at the time. It encouraged me to go on and read so many more other books, to read them critically, and work out why they work and don’t work etc etc etc. But the more people hold it to this impossible standard in such a hyperbolic and aggressive way, the more I find reasons to chip away at it.
If you love Watchmen that much, write about how good Watchmen is in it’s own right. Don’t use it as a stick to bash everything that’s come since. Don’t use it as a way to try and win an argument about whatever your pet comic issue is that week. I think Alan Moore’s biggest issue is that his book isn’t regarded enough in it’s own right, and it’s an important enough work to be handled without gossip-context and all the other bollocks that passes for adults-who-read-comics-talking-about-comics.
Show Alan Moore and Watchmen a bit of respect, and don’t try and impose your fucking context on it. It’s a work of art. It genuinely can’t be ruined by any art that follows, but it can be ruined by every third word spoken about it being bleaty, entitled shite.
Sorry, you said something? The Interactives? What’s that? I have never heard of it, therefore it must not be worth bothering with.
The Newly Announced Before Watchmen Is a Prime Example of What's Killing Mainstream Comics
“I have no idea whether this project will be any good or not. But it sits as a shining example of the fundamental flaw that exists in the comic industry, especially within DC Comics. They spend most of their time chasing the readers that grew up with their iconic characters rather than attempting to attract new readers who are growing up right now.”
Totally agree with this - though I think DC52, being a company-wide initiative, was more indicative of it, and I said as much at the time.
However, that backward looking trait in comics isn’t unique to publishers. Comic readers - many of whom are also comic retailers, which is a bigger issue - run wild with entitlement on either side of any comic-related debate, and stand ready to jump on anything that they perceive as a deviation or affront to comic texts or characters that they feel shouldn’t be touched. It all adds to the stupidly binary way any comic-related issue is handled.
The huge amount of brilliant work that goes un-discussed, unsupported and unbought in-between those two dominant cultures is the only genuine ongoing tragedy in comics today, I reckon. The rest is just semantics and negotiation of contracts.
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